Mudlet - Forum

Oh, yeah. There's little to go I think; are the importable files posted anywhere yet?

Vadi wrote:Oh, yeah. There's little to go I think; are the importable files posted anywhere yet?

Not the latest ones. I can post them tonight if you want to have a look.

Yep

Vadi wrote:Yep

Okay I've uploaded them. You can get them from here: http://www.godwars2.org/download/mudlet/

The GW2_MXP.xml file in gw2_scripts.zip has the link stuff, but you need the GW2_GUI.xml for the ATCP stuff that activates the "fake" MXP, otherwise the mud won't send you the triggers - and for that to work out-of-the-box you also need the gw2_images.zip file. You can ignore the gw2_sound.zip though, unless you want to see what its like to use Mudlet with sound.

KaVir wrote:I actually started writing a mud snippet that would at least cover the essentials, although I keep getting sidetracked and haven't yet finished it.

However this thread got me motivated again. After a few weeks of coding and testing, the snippet is now complete, and can be downloaded from here.

It adds support for TTYPE, NAWS, MSDP, ATCP, MSSP, MSP and MXP, as well as UTF-8 (using CHARSET) and XTerm 256 colors. One mud has already added it, at least three more are in the process of adding it, and with luck we'll see even more muds using it in the near future.

I think some mud owners will always be opposed to (or apathetic about) graphics, but at least this lowers the entry barrier for those who are interested.

Yikes! I'm amazed at how long it took all of you to get on the same page as the OP.

Anyways, I just stopped by to get the latest version of Mudlet but after reading through this thread I really felt the need to reply.

I first discovered MU*s back probably around 2001-2002. I remember at the time there were servers for just about every genre and play style you could think of. My home though, was just a pretty small MUSH called Atlantis set in a post apocalyptic future under the oceans. The player base was small, but the roleplay and the admins were fantastic. Sadly, after several years the server shutdown. I can still find a website related to the MUSH here: http://www.hawkgames.com/atlantis/ yet sadly there is no server to be found.

During my time there I dabbled in with a few other MUSHes. One was based on Wing Commander, another was Star Trek oriented, and I also tried a MUSH called Otherspace. I kept returning to Atlantis though. Why? I guess it was simply because Atlantis was all about the characters. It wasn't the admins that drove the story it was always the characters, us players.

I suppose I'm just reminiscing a bit, but I'll get on with my point. After a multiple year hiatus from MU*ing I came back several months ago. I'm incredibly saddened to see the sheer decline in not only player bases on MU*s but there are hardly any quality servers out there. Maybe for most of you it is hard to see but its true MUDs are dying.

However, I don't believe that is necessarily inevitable. There is one thing that, in my opinion MUDs can offer that no graphical MMO will ever be able to offer. That is quality roleplay. When I came back from my multi-year hiatus I started looking for a decent sci-fi RP enforced MUSH, sadly I couldn't find one. However, I did stumble across the RPI based MUDs. Some of the features I didn't like, but others I found truly amazing as to the amount of immersion they allowed into your character. I started on DartMUD, and the features were fantastic, however I sadly found the RP there to be lacking. Shortly after I found Harshlands and after a month or two there I had to give up because it mainly seemed the community was in such disarray and the most simple coding requests that would greatly enhance the game were ignored.

Recently I decided since I can't find my "home" again I'll create my own. The only problem is I can plainly see that MUDs are dying. The one thing I want to be able to do seems almost unattainable through MUDs. Whats that one thing? Simply a custom client for my server. If MUDs are going to survive MU* administrators need not only to be able to customize the experience from the server side, but also how the environment is presented on the client side.

Basically all I'm after is the ability to customize not just my server's content, but also the game's feel. So what am I to do? If I'm going to invest the time in creating the environment I don't see any way of I can learn how to create a custom client from scratch. I'm not even after any kind of mega graphical interface either. Quite simply I'm just after a way to present my world in a graphical-lite environment. Perhaps something like this. Sure there are graphical elements, but there role is to simply provide a bit of flavor, organization, ease of use, and greater accessibility. However, the heart and soul of the game is still in the words, the descriptions, and genuine character interaction that borders on literary prose.

Unfortunately this is generally something that can't be done on a MUD without a great level of expertise. So I've been feeling myself lured over to BYOND BYOND. I can create a world that resemble the look and feel of a traditional MUD or I can add my own user interface and customize the experience for my players. If I want my players inventory to always be displayed in a sub window or for my players health to dynamically update in another sub window its all quite easily done. The only downside to creating something with BYOND is that the community seems to be rather young and immature. However there is no reason I have to advertise my world to them. I could advertise my world created on BYOND directly to the MU*ing community.

However, maybe its just nastalgia, but I can't get my mind off the MU* codebases. I can't get this feeling out of my head that if I were to create my world on the BYOND platform I would be throwing away something very important. So, in the end I guess this is a plee from me. Don't let MUDs die. If I knew I could use Mudlet to create a completely custom client and user interface for my MOO I would stick with MUDs in a heart beat. The issue right now is that I don't know how difficult it would be to create that custom flavor and user experience for my world. As one person said earlier its all about bringing down barriers to entry. The barriers to entry for creating content on a MU* server are very low, however a custom client with graphical elements are much higher.

I guess after this insanely long winded post I would just like to say I would second a sub-forum dedicated solely to the administrator discussions of designing custom GUIs for their MUDs. I would also like to suggest the idea that some portion of the Mudlet site hosts free public domain graphical assets that can be used for any administrator wanting to create a custom feel for their world's client. I think MUDlet could be the last hope to keep MUDs from dying this slow death. What has to happen now though is for the focus to shift from allowing the administrator to customize the server to allowing him to customize the client. The client has to be seen as just as important as the server, and they have to be seen as two parts of a single whole.

Beach wrote:Recently I decided since I can't find my "home" again I'll create my own. The only problem is I can plainly see that MUDs are dying.

People have been claiming that regularly for over twenty years, long before you even started mudding. Yet muds continue to evolve and improve.

Beach wrote:The one thing I want to be able to do seems almost unattainable through MUDs. Whats that one thing? Simply a custom client for my server. If MUDs are going to survive MU* administrators need not only to be able to customize the experience from the server side, but also how the environment is presented on the client side.

You don't need a custom client, that's pretty much the entire point of this thread. The snippet I released a couple of days ago can be added to a mud in a matter of minutes, and a simple Mudlet GUI can be created in an hour or two, even with just basic programming knowledge.

The only problems I see are (1) the perpetuation of the myth that creating a custom GUI requires a lot of time and skill, and (2) apathy and/or hostility towards any sort of graphics from many old-school mudders and mud owners.

I think the MUDs that stay around do generally seem to evolve and improve. The problem is there are far fewer quality MUDs out there now then when I first started playing. So it seems the amount and diversity of servers are contracting, while the ones that do remain do in fact evolve. However there are overall far fewer MUD players/users then there used to be. ...or perhaps from my point of view maybe they have just abandoned the roleplay oriented MU*s and the population has shifted over to the hack and slash MUDs.

Anyways, on your second points I completely agree. If it is just a myth I'll definitely stick with the MU* community. I also just wanted to say your contributions are amazing and its people like you that openly share their work and creativity that I love about the community. So, thank you. I really do mean that.

I think one way to help dispel the myth would have a resource for administrators to discuss nothing else but custom GUI design...it seems a reasonably logical place would be simply to have a sub-forum here on the Mudlet forum specifically for that purpose.

As for your second point, if they want to stick solely to nothing but text, thats fine. Though as a community we shouldn't allow those that refuse to evolve to prevent MU*s on the whole from evolving. The world evolves and if MU*s don't evolve with it they will be left behind.

Anyways, Kavir, I just wanted to say thanks again for making your work available to the community its really appreciated.

I think one thing that could be beneficial to the community is a central repository for client customization that could include art assets, turorials, documentation, and anything else anyone wants to contribute.

Beach wrote:I think the MUDs that stay around do generally seem to evolve and improve. The problem is there are far fewer quality MUDs out there now then when I first started playing. So it seems the amount and diversity of servers are contracting, while the ones that do remain do in fact evolve.

Are you sure it's not just that your expectations have changed over the years, and fewer muds have kept up with those expectations?

When I look at the muds today compared to those a decade ago, I see a lot of cool improvements. The vast majority of the quality muds from back then still exist, so I don't think the hobby has declined - I think it's just that many of the bigger muds haven't really changed (at least not in major ways), and are therefore no longer cutting-edge.

This brings to mind a comment I read recently in response to a rather interesting blog post:

"I just checked the top 20 games on mudstats and I think all of them are 10+ years old and almost half are commercial ... If there is a lack of progress in the MUD community it’s because players want the same old familiar games and not because of a lack of resources."

Beach wrote:However there are overall far fewer MUD players/users then there used to be. ...or perhaps from my point of view maybe they have just abandoned the roleplay oriented MU*s and the population has shifted over to the hack and slash MUDs.

There are some pretty popular muds out there, but the vast majority of players play only a tiny minority of the muds, and as they're spoiled for choice this results in a lot of empty muds. Raph Koster wrote an interesting article a few years ago about the same pattern in MMOs.

Beach wrote:I think one way to help dispel the myth would have a resource for administrators to discuss nothing else but custom GUI design...it seems a reasonably logical place would be simply to have a sub-forum here on the Mudlet forum specifically for that purpose.

As I mentioned before, I wouldn't want to exclude people who are developing GUIs for other clients, particularly when there are already so few people interested in GUIs.

Beach wrote:As for your second point, if they want to stick solely to nothing but text, thats fine. Though as a community we shouldn't allow those that refuse to evolve to prevent MU*s on the whole from evolving. The world evolves and if MU*s don't evolve with it they will be left behind.

We saw much the same opposition to ANSI colour many years ago - yet these days almost every mud uses it. Similarly, back when I started mudding almost no muds had their own website, but these days it's practically a requirement if you want to be taken seriously. I suspect that over the next decade, we'll see a similar shift in attitute towards the use of graphics.

Beach wrote:I think one thing that could be beneficial to the community is a central repository for client customization that could include art assets, turorials, documentation, and anything else anyone wants to contribute.

That would be great, and I could definitely see the value in some tutorials for designing Mudlet GUIs. But the artwork would be just as useful for other clients, and even many of the scripts could be adapted for other clients (I copied my Mudlet script from my MUSHclient GUI for example, and just made some minor changes to get it working).

I'm in agreement with all that KaVir has had to say. As for a unified resource... http://opengameart.org might work fine. It's tuned for traditional games, but I don't see why wouldn't client MUD resources go there.