First off, I'd like to comment on how much I'm liking Mudlet. This client is far from perfect, but overall, its implementation for coding is far more comfortable and easier to look at than other clients I've used (zMUD, MUSHclient). I'm having a great time using it!
Okay, now to the gripes. The mudlet mapper, I installed it, tried it out, and wasn't too happy with it (I know, it needs work and I'm looking forward to its completion). I'm using one I made for myself a few years back until the mapper is more polished. Anyway, I removed all the script files for it, but every time I load my client after that, it takes FOREVER, and sometimes the client will lock up and I'll have to restart it. I found and deleted the map file and it is still doing this. The mapper is bloat-ware. Please don't go the path of bloat-ware. I really hope to see that fixed.
I understand that the version I'm using is just a beta, but what I don't know is how often people are crashing in comparison to me. When I first started using Mudlet, the crashes were pretty uncommon. It seems though, that the more scripts and things I have Mudlet do, the more crashes I'm getting! I'm almost to one a day now! I'm considering stopping the use of Mudlet for now, but it is just so nice to use I don't want to!
Anyway, the client is looking great. I just wish I could help polish it up and get it running better! Looking forward to the future of text gaming with this!
[resolved] Bloat-ware and crashing!
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
I'm not aware of any crash reports whatsoever. If you experience regular crashes it's most likely that you MUD isn't properly supported and I need more information.
1. Which MUD do you play?
2. Which version of Mudlet do you use and which OS?
3. I'm not sure if I understand your posting correctly. Do you use the built in mapper or do you use your own mapper program? In case that you use the built in mapper: How many rooms have you mapped and what are the specs of your machine (processor and amount of RAM)
4. How many triggers do you use and what is the size of your profile xml file? There's many people with incredible large scripts with several thousand triggers that run reliably without any known problems.
As Mudlet-2.0 final is due soon with a last test version Mudlet-2.0-test4 being released later today, it's important to make sure that your issues get addressed quickly.
1. Which MUD do you play?
2. Which version of Mudlet do you use and which OS?
3. I'm not sure if I understand your posting correctly. Do you use the built in mapper or do you use your own mapper program? In case that you use the built in mapper: How many rooms have you mapped and what are the specs of your machine (processor and amount of RAM)
4. How many triggers do you use and what is the size of your profile xml file? There's many people with incredible large scripts with several thousand triggers that run reliably without any known problems.
As Mudlet-2.0 final is due soon with a last test version Mudlet-2.0-test4 being released later today, it's important to make sure that your issues get addressed quickly.
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
1. I'm currently playing Lusternia, exclusively.
2. Mudlet 2.0 June 12, 2011 under Windows XP SP3
3. I first used the built in mapper, but went ahead and decided to stick to my own until Mudlet's got more polished. I downloaded the map file via Mudlet, so I had every room mapped in Lusternia that the map file had. I'm using a 2ghz dual-core processor (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+) with 2 gigs of RAM.
4. I have around 57 triggers, not all active at one time. I do have some events (all gmcp). And... apparently, I have 2275 profile xml files. They are each dated and they go back to around late September of this year! The total folder is 321 megs! Why are there so many? The latest profile xml is 201KB.
I'd just like to note that there aren't any performance problems while using Mudlet (just loading it after having used the built in mapper). When it crashes, it is almost always when sending a command to the game, and the command never actually gets sent to the server, so I don't think the problem are triggers. I just know that the crashing frequency seems to have increased with the amount of stuff I add (3 times within the last 24 hours now, but that could be a fluke).
Also, I have found that I have a 100% crash rate trying to use the expandAlias function!
2. Mudlet 2.0 June 12, 2011 under Windows XP SP3
3. I first used the built in mapper, but went ahead and decided to stick to my own until Mudlet's got more polished. I downloaded the map file via Mudlet, so I had every room mapped in Lusternia that the map file had. I'm using a 2ghz dual-core processor (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+) with 2 gigs of RAM.
4. I have around 57 triggers, not all active at one time. I do have some events (all gmcp). And... apparently, I have 2275 profile xml files. They are each dated and they go back to around late September of this year! The total folder is 321 megs! Why are there so many? The latest profile xml is 201KB.
I'd just like to note that there aren't any performance problems while using Mudlet (just loading it after having used the built in mapper). When it crashes, it is almost always when sending a command to the game, and the command never actually gets sent to the server, so I don't think the problem are triggers. I just know that the crashing frequency seems to have increased with the amount of stuff I add (3 times within the last 24 hours now, but that could be a fluke).
Also, I have found that I have a 100% crash rate trying to use the expandAlias function!
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
You have a 100% crash rate because you're using it 100% wrong and are making it loop infinitely calling itself 
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
1. You are using Mudlet's built in mapper, but you are using a self made mapper *script*? The Mudlet "mapper" is the map representation, map display, shortest path searching, and general mapper script backbone. You need your own mapper script to do custom MUD specific stuff, because all MUDs are different. Consequently, using your *own script* is what the whole thing is all about unless you can make do with what other people have written for your MUD.
The current mapper has support for map labels, special exits and even user defined line strips to make the visual representation of a given exit e.g. curved lines, or whatever you like. There are so many built in features now that wait for being used by users, that I don't think the mapper is still missing in any area and it is in fact the most advanced mapper that I'm aware of. If you want your mapper script support some game specific capabilities, you should be able to write a script for it.
2. Mudlet never deletes any old user data to be on the safe side. If you have 2275 profile xml files, you have saved your profile that many times and can roll back to any of these older snapshots at any time.
3. Your crash report isn't a "crash" report but a "hang" report. If a crash happens, Mudlet.exe will exit with a windows execption error message. In case of a hang, one of your scripts or aliases loops infinitely. Note that this isn't a Mudlet problem, but a script error on your part. Take a close look at your alias patterns and a special look at all instances where you use expandAlias() as this function intentionnaly loops through your aliases in order to expand it. Also look for alias patterns that match unwanted input and don't send it to the mud.
4. Loading a saved map should be fast. Downloading and initializing the game map from Lusternia takes inherently longer, but shouldn't take "forever" unless you have slow internet connection.
The current mapper has support for map labels, special exits and even user defined line strips to make the visual representation of a given exit e.g. curved lines, or whatever you like. There are so many built in features now that wait for being used by users, that I don't think the mapper is still missing in any area and it is in fact the most advanced mapper that I'm aware of. If you want your mapper script support some game specific capabilities, you should be able to write a script for it.
2. Mudlet never deletes any old user data to be on the safe side. If you have 2275 profile xml files, you have saved your profile that many times and can roll back to any of these older snapshots at any time.
3. Your crash report isn't a "crash" report but a "hang" report. If a crash happens, Mudlet.exe will exit with a windows execption error message. In case of a hang, one of your scripts or aliases loops infinitely. Note that this isn't a Mudlet problem, but a script error on your part. Take a close look at your alias patterns and a special look at all instances where you use expandAlias() as this function intentionnaly loops through your aliases in order to expand it. Also look for alias patterns that match unwanted input and don't send it to the mud.
4. Loading a saved map should be fast. Downloading and initializing the game map from Lusternia takes inherently longer, but shouldn't take "forever" unless you have slow internet connection.
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
1. I said I used it but -removed- it when I decided I didn't want to use it. Stating that I'm using my own is just useless information that I added. The fact that it is removed (all scripts, triggers, aliases for the mudlet mapper) and that I deleted the map file that it had downloaded, should mean that it no longer takes forever to load, but it still does.
And yeah, I know the mudlet mapper has a lot of stuff to it, but it is a fact that I just don't like it at the moment. I'm much happier using something that I made that has a lot less features. The same would be true for internet browsers, operating systems, et cetera, if I was any good at programming.
Anyway, the whole point is that the mapper takes forever to load even after I removed everything I could find that was associated with it. Not cool, especially when it locks Mudlet up while trying to get back after it "hanged".
2. Yeah, I save a lot. This is because from the first couple of days of having used the beta version, I had crashed and lost stuff while testing. So, now I save before everything I ever test. Ever!
3. I've made one infinite loop by accident, and on that case Mudlet does not just disappear to the desktop. It acts just like every other piece of software that I've seen enter into an infinite loop: it locks up with the need to manually shut it down. I've been having these crashes since before I've been using any loop that could accidently be an infinite loop. Mainly I just loop through tables (for i, v in pairs(table) do). I have literally TWO while loops in my entire client and both of them are controlled and isolated to their own commands and thus would not just randomly crash my client. I'd at least be able to see an association. As it is right now, it happens from seemingly anything I send to the server. Activating a switch yesterday crashed me, no use of an alias. Looking at somebody's description has crashed me. Sending to attack something has crashed me (in this case it would be a macro that doesn't use loops). Taking gold from my backpack crashed me! As noted, none of these commands get to the server.
Just a question in relation to this, are you going to blame the broken command history in Mudlet on me too? I mean, afterall, so many other users aren't having any trouble with it.
About expandAlias, you are right that there is a problem with something in my aliases. I made a fresh profile and tried it out without the client going poof. I currently don't use it for anything on my normal profile. I'm not even sure where to start on what to look for. Would expandAlias iterate through deactivated aliases? Because it'd be much faster for me to fix it via trial and error. I don't really have a lot of stuff so it'd be pretty quick.
4. My thoughts exactly. I used to use a mapper for another game that had everything mapped so it was a fairly large map file, but it never presented any loading problems. I don't think it is downloading it. My connection doesn't have a lot of throughput to it, so it'd take longer than it currently does to load it. Plus, I'm not finding any recreated map files.
The long load time for some reason is only in associated with my Lusternia profiles (even the default one which I've never used!). Everything else is instant (all other IRE profiles and various random MUDs)
And yeah, I know the mudlet mapper has a lot of stuff to it, but it is a fact that I just don't like it at the moment. I'm much happier using something that I made that has a lot less features. The same would be true for internet browsers, operating systems, et cetera, if I was any good at programming.
Anyway, the whole point is that the mapper takes forever to load even after I removed everything I could find that was associated with it. Not cool, especially when it locks Mudlet up while trying to get back after it "hanged".
2. Yeah, I save a lot. This is because from the first couple of days of having used the beta version, I had crashed and lost stuff while testing. So, now I save before everything I ever test. Ever!
3. I've made one infinite loop by accident, and on that case Mudlet does not just disappear to the desktop. It acts just like every other piece of software that I've seen enter into an infinite loop: it locks up with the need to manually shut it down. I've been having these crashes since before I've been using any loop that could accidently be an infinite loop. Mainly I just loop through tables (for i, v in pairs(table) do). I have literally TWO while loops in my entire client and both of them are controlled and isolated to their own commands and thus would not just randomly crash my client. I'd at least be able to see an association. As it is right now, it happens from seemingly anything I send to the server. Activating a switch yesterday crashed me, no use of an alias. Looking at somebody's description has crashed me. Sending to attack something has crashed me (in this case it would be a macro that doesn't use loops). Taking gold from my backpack crashed me! As noted, none of these commands get to the server.
Just a question in relation to this, are you going to blame the broken command history in Mudlet on me too? I mean, afterall, so many other users aren't having any trouble with it.
About expandAlias, you are right that there is a problem with something in my aliases. I made a fresh profile and tried it out without the client going poof. I currently don't use it for anything on my normal profile. I'm not even sure where to start on what to look for. Would expandAlias iterate through deactivated aliases? Because it'd be much faster for me to fix it via trial and error. I don't really have a lot of stuff so it'd be pretty quick.
4. My thoughts exactly. I used to use a mapper for another game that had everything mapped so it was a fairly large map file, but it never presented any loading problems. I don't think it is downloading it. My connection doesn't have a lot of throughput to it, so it'd take longer than it currently does to load it. Plus, I'm not finding any recreated map files.
The long load time for some reason is only in associated with my Lusternia profiles (even the default one which I've never used!). Everything else is instant (all other IRE profiles and various random MUDs)
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
expandAlias is the same as normal input, it won'te iterate over deactivated aliases. But if it calls an alias that calls expandAlias again, it'll loop like that.
To be honest I'm not liking your attitude, please take it elsewhere. We prefer feedback from mannerful people who appreciate the volunteer time we put into all of this.
To be honest I'm not liking your attitude, please take it elsewhere. We prefer feedback from mannerful people who appreciate the volunteer time we put into all of this.
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
My attitude is fine. How am I supposed to feel when I've been having these problems for the last month, regardless of what kind of scripts I have going? I'm told it is my fault. The fact that the command history doesn't work for me but works for most everyone else, tells me that this client is not perfect and neither are you guys. I'm not perfect either, and I'm willing to accept a mistake, but given I know how long it has been crashing and actually have experience with the problems I can better determine what the issue is.
My programming practices haven't changed since having used MUSHclient or Mudbot, and Mudbot has NEVER crashed and MUSHclient... well, I seem to remember it crashing once, out of the 8 months I've used it. You're telling me that it is me me me me. I disagree, and if you don't like it, that is just too bad. Volunteer or not, I DON'T have to tiptoe around you guys if I think there is a problem, especially when I'm being blamed.
My programming practices haven't changed since having used MUSHclient or Mudbot, and Mudbot has NEVER crashed and MUSHclient... well, I seem to remember it crashing once, out of the 8 months I've used it. You're telling me that it is me me me me. I disagree, and if you don't like it, that is just too bad. Volunteer or not, I DON'T have to tiptoe around you guys if I think there is a problem, especially when I'm being blamed.
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
You are not using Mudlet 1.1.1, which is the latest stable release of Mudlet. You are using an in-development version of Mudlet, put out early for users to test features, expect problems, and report them.
Obviously you can't seem to handle unstable release candidates, so don't use them, and you won't have problems. It's pretty simple, the client is not bloat-ware, and crashing is expected on a release candidate.
Obviously you can't seem to handle unstable release candidates, so don't use them, and you won't have problems. It's pretty simple, the client is not bloat-ware, and crashing is expected on a release candidate.
Re: Bloat-ware and crashing!
Yeah, I understand there is going to be problems as indicated in my first post. I was expecting crashes, to be honest, so when I got one the first time, I wasn't surprised. But that first crash simply has nothing to do with what it was claimed to be associate with: infinite loops. I had no loops at all on my first crash, nor any use of expandAlias. What else is there except that perhaps, in my situation, the client is unstable and it has nothing to do with my practices? I don't see this as a bad attitude, I see this as me having come here, reporting that I've experienced these problems, and then basically being brushed aside. You might as well tell me, "LOL LERN TO PROGRAM1!1".
Also, what do you want me to think about the mapper anyway? When I first used Mudlet, no problems with loading. I get around to trying out the mapper a few weeks later after being more familiar, and ever since I updated the map file and got that all working, my client now takes longer than it should to load, sometime freezes while loading, and other times I have to minimize the client and maximize it again just to get profile menu to disappear properly like it should have, so that I can continue playing. This happens even after having removed the mapper completely.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm lacking any faith here since I've actually explained the mapper situation 4 times now, and I don't expect you guys will understand even after the fifth explanation:
Before mapper: no long load times
After mapper: long load times, freezing on loading, sometimes profile menu doesn't disappear properly
Removed mapper compeltely: long load times, freezing on loading, sometimes profile menu doesn't disappear properly
Anyway, I do appreciate the client. As it is, Mudlet is the best client I've seen, which is pretty impressive considering it is free, and not even that, other developers have had plenty of years to create something that I'd enjoy using, but they haven't. Mudlet is the first client that actually just makes sense to me, next to Mudbot (which isn't really a client as much as it is a proxy for scripting support). MUSHclient close, but it's interface is terrible.
Also, what do you want me to think about the mapper anyway? When I first used Mudlet, no problems with loading. I get around to trying out the mapper a few weeks later after being more familiar, and ever since I updated the map file and got that all working, my client now takes longer than it should to load, sometime freezes while loading, and other times I have to minimize the client and maximize it again just to get profile menu to disappear properly like it should have, so that I can continue playing. This happens even after having removed the mapper completely.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm lacking any faith here since I've actually explained the mapper situation 4 times now, and I don't expect you guys will understand even after the fifth explanation:
Before mapper: no long load times
After mapper: long load times, freezing on loading, sometimes profile menu doesn't disappear properly
Removed mapper compeltely: long load times, freezing on loading, sometimes profile menu doesn't disappear properly
Anyway, I do appreciate the client. As it is, Mudlet is the best client I've seen, which is pretty impressive considering it is free, and not even that, other developers have had plenty of years to create something that I'd enjoy using, but they haven't. Mudlet is the first client that actually just makes sense to me, next to Mudbot (which isn't really a client as much as it is a proxy for scripting support). MUSHclient close, but it's interface is terrible.