Here's an example of one MUD admin porting a custom display to Mudlet: http://forums.mudlet.org/viewtopic.php? ... 7873#p7873
This is to be done on a per-MUD basis by interested parties. Mudlet provides all the functionality for it to be there, but core developers are much too busy implementing features, nevermind doing around MUD by MUD to implement custom graphics interfaces for them. Nevermind that none of them cannot even draw.
For some possibilities of what can be done in Mudlet, see: http://www.mudlet.org/media/
'When we reach a point where a user can download mudlet (tweaked for their specific mud) and have something that looks as slick as Batclient, then you will have the whole client scene well and truely sewn up.' Sure, I agree, that sounds great. Who'll be creating it? That's the real problem you haven't helped to answer :/
Look and Feel
Re: Look and Feel
I personnally don't like the looks of the java client of batmud to be honest and I seriously wonder how people can live with its performance 
Try Mudlet on Batmud and the game suddenly begins to fly
Mudlet has all the UI customization features you need to make attractive UIs, but MUDs have to build their own as the games differ widely and any good UI will revolve around specific game features.
Try Mudlet on Batmud and the game suddenly begins to fly Mudlet has all the UI customization features you need to make attractive UIs, but MUDs have to build their own as the games differ widely and any good UI will revolve around specific game features.
Re: Look and Feel
Vadi wrote:Here's an example of one MUD admin porting a custom display to Mudlet: http://forums.mudlet.org/viewtopic.php? ... 7873#p7873
'When we reach a point where a user can download mudlet (tweaked for their specific mud) and have something that looks as slick as Batclient, then you will have the whole client scene well and truely sewn up.' Sure, I agree, that sounds great. Who'll be creating it? That's the real problem you haven't helped to answer :/
Agree - and that was actually the question I was asking. I wasnt praising Batclients speed, or its functionality - just the fact that it looks like something non-mudders understand and may be tempted to use. But yes, who will design those sort of UI elements, and implement some of these functions. If done fully open source others can build on that work, but most of the Uis are a very long way from this. That said, full respect to KaVir (who I know from other far away places
, as it looks like he's taken a few more steps in the right direction.I think one concern I always have is that when it comes to codebases, mudlibs, protocols, support there are thousands of us who have devoted literally years to supporting mudding in general and giving away our time for free - the mudlet community is yet another example of this. But when it comes to graphic design everything suddenly becomes very proprietry, and 'why should anyone spend their time and give it away?' gets asked a lot. And yet in every other aspect of muds we all do that daily.
So absolutely nail on the head - who'll be creating it? Not full custom clients for others, but something that looks slick and can match the LOOK ofthings like Batclient (equivalent not identical before anyone leaps in). If released then others can use that to tweak, update, build upon for their own muds, just like we all do with code daily.
Larnen
Re: Look and Feel
We hear what you're saying, you just have no idea what you're talking about (Which I'll now openly say given your argument is that we just aren't as enlightened as you are). Designing a client to cater to one particular mud (such as Badmud (which is a terrible game by the way)) is easy. Designing an interface in that client that deals with one particular mud and that runs on one particular OS is also easy. What mudlet has done is infinitely more difficult: it has given players the freedom to customize the client's interface in whatever way they feel is appropriate and as such cater to any given mud out there.larnen wrote:Ok I officially give up. People are either missing what im saying deliberately in their haste to defend a client that I have only actually praised, or just have no frame of reference for what Im talking about. Which is a real shame, as this, in my opinion, is the largest barrier to increasing playerbase numbers across the genre.
You might think about listening to our arguments instead of pressing your own flawed one and simply get to work on designing the interface of your choosing. Mudlet, as it so happens, makes this moderately easy.
Re: Look and Feel
Another helpful reply. If youd at any point listened to what Id saying youd stop beating this dead horse. Guess what? I know its easier to design for one mud than multiple. Wow - that was hard to grasp. And guess what? I know its easier to do single rather than cross platform. Shocking. THATS NOT WHAT IM SAYING, and if youd stop to read rather than being overly defensive that would be clear.
Stop bristling at an imagined attack at your project (which isnt there, as ive said over and over) and listen to what im saying. Mudlet is great but whats needed more than anything to hook new players is ACCESSIBILITY and my perception from watching this and other clients for nearly 20 years now is that functionality is racing ahead of accessibility. Im not saying YOU should be doing anything different, and ive also said that my contribution to the mud community isnt and has never been graphics.
But seriously, if you cannot take feedback without reacting like this Im wasting my time. Carry on, make a fantastic client and watch the numbers actually mudding continue to dwindle. Thats called winning the battle but losing the war, but if its what keeps you motivated good on you. Mudlet as a project is fantastic, but ultimately futile if we all fail to recognise that the whole mudding community is on the wane and we fail to focus resources at expanding it.
I thought this forum would be a place to raise this and discuss but clearly not.
Feel free to add some additional comment about how I know nothing about anything, and how the Uis available at present are just what is needed for new players. I wont be wasting any more time here.
Stop bristling at an imagined attack at your project (which isnt there, as ive said over and over) and listen to what im saying. Mudlet is great but whats needed more than anything to hook new players is ACCESSIBILITY and my perception from watching this and other clients for nearly 20 years now is that functionality is racing ahead of accessibility. Im not saying YOU should be doing anything different, and ive also said that my contribution to the mud community isnt and has never been graphics.
But seriously, if you cannot take feedback without reacting like this Im wasting my time. Carry on, make a fantastic client and watch the numbers actually mudding continue to dwindle. Thats called winning the battle but losing the war, but if its what keeps you motivated good on you. Mudlet as a project is fantastic, but ultimately futile if we all fail to recognise that the whole mudding community is on the wane and we fail to focus resources at expanding it.
I thought this forum would be a place to raise this and discuss but clearly not.
Feel free to add some additional comment about how I know nothing about anything, and how the Uis available at present are just what is needed for new players. I wont be wasting any more time here.
Re: Look and Feel
Eh, clearly just a forums troll. I kinda hoped he'd eventually hop over to the API and see how feature rich the display tools are.
Re: Look and Feel
Doesn't seem to a troll necessarily, but does have issues accepting criticism.
Here's a hint, this is a volunteer effort. Nobody is paid to do any work here, nobody gets any monetary compensation for doing it. We certainly appreciate the idea, and we aren't denying it - we're just not in the position to do it, and it's up to people (who may or may not come up with this themselves, or read the thread) come upon this and do it for their MUD.
Here's a hint, this is a volunteer effort. Nobody is paid to do any work here, nobody gets any monetary compensation for doing it. We certainly appreciate the idea, and we aren't denying it - we're just not in the position to do it, and it's up to people (who may or may not come up with this themselves, or read the thread) come upon this and do it for their MUD.
Re: Look and Feel
Expanding on Vadi a bit and back to my original point: while we're depending on people to take the initiative for such things themselves, we -have- given them the means to do so. I say we, but I really mean Heiko and a few excellent volunteers. People like myself are spending a great deal of time and effort pushing the boundaries of what Mudlet can do and suggesting features, functions and ideas and for the most part the dev team has been excellent about listening to them.
I feel strongly that Mudlet is -already capable- of doing what you're asking, but you seem to be implying that we're too lazy to do anything of value with it (which is both insulting to those of us who have countless hours logged on this project and ignorant of the scripts already written and publicly contributed).
I feel strongly that Mudlet is -already capable- of doing what you're asking, but you seem to be implying that we're too lazy to do anything of value with it (which is both insulting to those of us who have countless hours logged on this project and ignorant of the scripts already written and publicly contributed).
Re: Look and Feel
I never said anything of the sort. Ive said I feel it is capable. Ive said that the mudlet dev team arent the people to do doing what im suggesting as thats not their focus. Youre having an argument with yourself as I havent said any of what youre attributing to me.
Ive said:
* Mudlet is excellent
* Mudlet is the 1st time I can see real potential in doing a modern looking ui
* Mudlet seems to have the framework to do that
* Graphic design is best done by graphic designers. Are there any graphic designers out there who want to contribute their time.
* Functionality is excellent but has run ahead of accessibility. This is causing muds to lose potential players. That creates an opportunity as the tools are now there (mudlet) for the first time.
Nowhere have I called you lazy. Nowhere have I said this isnt a volunteer effort (much like the ENTIRE MUD COMMUNITY I should add). Nowhere have I said Mudlet should do this out of the box. Nowhere have I said that different muds do not have different requirements. Nowhere have I said that anyone should design an entire gui in a one-size-fits-all manner. I merely suggested that mudlet can take client usability for new players to the next level if the COMMUNITY pulled together a project to come up with better implementation of the tools already there.
Some of what has been done is good, Kavir's ui is a good step in the right direction. But there is a long way to go to hook the people that muds need to survive long term.
Ive said:
* Mudlet is excellent
* Mudlet is the 1st time I can see real potential in doing a modern looking ui
* Mudlet seems to have the framework to do that
* Graphic design is best done by graphic designers. Are there any graphic designers out there who want to contribute their time.
* Functionality is excellent but has run ahead of accessibility. This is causing muds to lose potential players. That creates an opportunity as the tools are now there (mudlet) for the first time.
Nowhere have I called you lazy. Nowhere have I said this isnt a volunteer effort (much like the ENTIRE MUD COMMUNITY I should add). Nowhere have I said Mudlet should do this out of the box. Nowhere have I said that different muds do not have different requirements. Nowhere have I said that anyone should design an entire gui in a one-size-fits-all manner. I merely suggested that mudlet can take client usability for new players to the next level if the COMMUNITY pulled together a project to come up with better implementation of the tools already there.
Some of what has been done is good, Kavir's ui is a good step in the right direction. But there is a long way to go to hook the people that muds need to survive long term.
Re: Look and Feel
Larnen is clearly *NOT* a forum troll, but some long time MUD admin who asks the MUD community as a whole to help improve the accessiblity of MUDs to get more new players. This is the very same reason why Mudlet has been created in the first place. It is very important because the old text and ASCII art interfaces of most MUDs don't appeal to young people anymore who are so much used to modern GUI interfaces that they refuse to even look at the depth that MUDs have to offer because they are appalled by the way MUDs present themselves to new players.
The need for GUI interfaces and graphical maps has been clearly shown by statistical analysis. IRE did extensive investigations on when people drop out of their tutorials - and this was when the new players were asked to move around in the MUD by themselves and were given some ASCII map to find their way. This information is important because IRE spends a lot of money on advertising and thus manages to draw far more new potential players into their tutorials than the average MUD that cannot afford expensive advertising.
Larnen doesn't want to criticise Mudlet and he knows well about the technical GUI abilities of Mudlet and this is the very reason why he asks the community to contribute scripts and artwork to make it easier for the average MUD to construct friendler interfaces for their games. This is really an issue that affects everybody in the MUD community and those with the ability to contribute (especially graphics designers) should step in and help out.
The need for GUI interfaces and graphical maps has been clearly shown by statistical analysis. IRE did extensive investigations on when people drop out of their tutorials - and this was when the new players were asked to move around in the MUD by themselves and were given some ASCII map to find their way. This information is important because IRE spends a lot of money on advertising and thus manages to draw far more new potential players into their tutorials than the average MUD that cannot afford expensive advertising.
Larnen doesn't want to criticise Mudlet and he knows well about the technical GUI abilities of Mudlet and this is the very reason why he asks the community to contribute scripts and artwork to make it easier for the average MUD to construct friendler interfaces for their games. This is really an issue that affects everybody in the MUD community and those with the ability to contribute (especially graphics designers) should step in and help out.